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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 9, 2009 15:14:20 GMT -5
Erm.... Space cannot be infinite, it's still expanding. it can never be ifinite if it keeps on expanding. It's always a certain size.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 9, 2009 15:15:30 GMT -5
and.... How the hell do we know what happened at the moment of the creation of the earth. The bible says it was created in 7 days, but was there anyone there to see it?
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Post by General Veers on Feb 9, 2009 15:49:19 GMT -5
You all have an account s, please refrain from copying Sandmaster (doubleposting).
Below I used spoilers to conserve space.
"Space Expansion vs. Universe Expansion" There is a difference between Universe and Space.
Universe: The totality of all known or supposed objects throughout space Space: Emptiness; nothingness; void; zero-ness
Anyways, it is THE UNIVERSE that is expanding, not emptiness (space). SPACE, emptiness, void, is indeed infinite. You could go to the edge of the universe (assuming the edge is defined by where the farthest reaches of matter are) and there will still be nothingness, space, around you. Travel googolplex lightyears away from the edge of the universe faster than the UNIVERSE can expand, and SPACE, nothingness, emptiness, void, will be there. There will be void anywhere you can imagine.
Space itself is infinite. There IS a difference between "universe" and "space."
"Seven Days Situation" There, now that I got that out of the way, to explain very quickly the "7-days" situation.
The Bible is God's Word. I do believe that He told His Word to some people who then chronicled that Word.
Also, a "day" as used in Genesis may not be the same "day" as defined by one full rotation of the Earth around its axis. For all we know, a "day" might actually be a geological day, in which case one geological second is equivalent to one hundred revolutions around the Sun (i.e. one century, or one hundred years). How can those units be different from ours? Well, in Revelations it is said that the angels measured things in Heaven with different units than humans do on Earth (at least, for the Romans and those under their imperial rule).
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Post by GrandEnder on Feb 9, 2009 17:36:04 GMT -5
Space beyond space is infinite. Therefore, a finite god can and must exist beyond the universe. Anti-Matter and Anti-X must exist because of the infiniteness, and therefore god can exist without destroying us.
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Post by Soul Alchemist on Feb 9, 2009 18:30:43 GMT -5
he knows EVERYTHING that will happen. from taking a cookie, to murdering 200 people so you still go with no decision yes EXACTLY. EXCEPT, you're forgetting that by EVERYTHING, that actually means EVERYTHING. not everything in one distinct line of choices. but EVERYTHING. klasdjfl;adjhgl;lajfasdjkfasdjg ^^ that gibberish was MY CHOICE. it was not fate, because it was completely random EXCEPT to make my point here. but without that piece of gibberish, there would be no point to make. so thus, god DOES know everything on the " tree of choices" (not line of choices) but the difficult thing, is making sure WHICH choice will be made based on the being's intelligence, past, memories, relations, environment, ETC. AND having to keep track of all the BILLIONS, TRILLIONS, SEPTILIONS of intelligent beings in the universe. thankfully, he's still all powerful and can do that sort of thing. it's no wonder why it'll be such a blessing to know what he knows when we get into the celestial kingdom.
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 9, 2009 18:52:53 GMT -5
Space beyond space is infinite. Therefore, a finite god can and must exist beyond the universe. Anti-Matter and Anti-X must exist because of the infiniteness, and therefore god can exist without destroying us. That's total bull. What makes you think that there isn't any more matter than that of the Big Bang? Or maybe that the matter from the Big Bang was already THERE. Antimatter does not exist God may or may not exist, but he has no control Spiritbot, that wasn't a choice. That was a collection of neurons in your head programmed to work in a way so that you do not know you are programmed.
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Post by Soul Alchemist on Feb 9, 2009 20:06:51 GMT -5
::)yes, SM, because in RL I am just a machine with simple programing to spas out on the keyboard now and then. I have no will of my own. I'm just an organic machine driven to survive and have sex. WRONG
and what would the point of there being a god if he has no control??? if you're implying that there is none and thus he doesn't exist you're wrong about that too. and you're also wrong about him having control. I've seen his control in many places and many times. I don't know where you've been looking, but I don't think it's the right place...
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Post by GrandEnder on Feb 9, 2009 21:06:53 GMT -5
Sandmaster, both of your 'questions' about matter have no revelence to my theory. Of course (not) there is more matter than that of the big bang, and of course (not) the matter from the big bang was already there. All probabilities fufill themselves, just in different sections of space.
Also, when you can show me a reason why anti-matter can not exist, or give me an artical about its non-existence, then I will continue to beleive that it exists.
I don't respect blissful ignorance.
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Post by General Veers on Feb 9, 2009 21:10:52 GMT -5
I think you mean "until" instead of "when," and I do believe Sandmaster's reasoning was that all antimatter has already interacted with all of the matter. Of course, I'm just paraphrasing now, and I ergo don't have that word for word.
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Post by GrandEnder on Feb 9, 2009 21:35:55 GMT -5
Oh no. Oh... he thought that? No. Some of the anti-matter actually still exists within the universe itself, and there would be an infinite supply elsewhere. It didn't destroy everything because the laws of reality weren't ready yet, and inflation kicked in before it got the chance.
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Post by General Veers on Feb 9, 2009 21:39:39 GMT -5
Laws of reality not yet ready? I imagined that they are some of the few things that existed simulataneously with God...
According to a science article I once read, the laws of physics can only be modified on quasars. I have long forgotten what article that was, so now I can't use it as a reliable source. Darn.
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Post by GrandEnder on Feb 9, 2009 21:47:27 GMT -5
Actually when the big bang occured, a the first few super small seconds had only gravity as a law, so the electromagnetic force/strong+weak nuclear forces didn't exist.
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Post by Soul Alchemist on Feb 9, 2009 22:05:03 GMT -5
well, given the law of conservation of mass, no matter (or anti-matter...MASS is the key word) can be created or destroyed. given this, I think that where ever there isn't matter, there is anti-matter. that would be outside of the universe in the section of 'nothingness' or space. I also think, that if enough pressure is applied to a certain amount of anti-matter, you can "create" matter, or build some new matter. this case could also explain the big bang: 2 particles of anti-matter (or if this theory were to be true, the correct name should be SUB matter) rushing at each other at the right speed smashed into each other, creating matter, creating the negation process of matter <~> anti-matter, creating a chain reaction of TONS of the anti-matter crashing together and other matter particles negating. this would be the huge explosion from the big bang. this could also be the reason as to why our universe is expanding still, not because of momentum (the age of our universe is way too old and it would have stopped by now) but because of a constant negation between matter and anti-matter. and when matter and anti-matter collide, it creates energy, but it goes back to matter somehow....that part I'm not so sure about...
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Post by Qwerty333 on Feb 9, 2009 22:57:10 GMT -5
I opened a poll for the thread...
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Post by General Veers on Feb 10, 2009 0:58:58 GMT -5
this could also be the reason as to why our universe is expanding still, not because of momentum (the age of our universe is way too old and it would have stopped by now) I'm not sure if you are familiar with the Newton's First Law of Motion (a.k.a. The Law of Inertia): Some people fail to realize that not only masses at rest (with zero velocity) maintain inertia, but so do masses of any constant velocity. With that in mind, it doesn't matter how long those masses have been travelling: they will still continue to travel until external forces compel them to stop. A force would have to act continually on a mass until the mass reaches zero velocity in order for the mass to come to rest. s(t) displacement (a.k.a. change in position over time) v(t)=s'(t) velocity (a.k.a. change in displacement over time) a(t)=v'(t)=s"(t)=acceleration (a.k.a. change in velocity over time) j(t)=a'(t)=v"(t)=s"'(t) jerk (a.k.a. change in acceleration over time) If a mass is displaced at a constant rate, there is zero velocity. If a mass has constant velocity, there is zero acceleration. If a mass has constant acceleration, there is zero jerk.
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Post by GrandEnder on Feb 10, 2009 7:06:04 GMT -5
Whats agnosticism? Also, no one has disproved probability theory yet.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 10, 2009 9:59:35 GMT -5
hm.......... Humans think that they are always at the centre of attention. in the bible it says that god created the earth, and THEN the rest of the universe. why would God (if there is one) focus on humans? Humans used to believe that everything orbits the earth and earth is at the centre. It's the same with god. We believe we are at the centre when there are........ billions and billions of other planetes which could be populated with intelligent beings.
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Post by Matter Teorist on Feb 10, 2009 14:30:32 GMT -5
Well actually you are. Humans are driven by there own arrogance to convince themselves that there is something grand about them (Like being part of a bigger "plan"), but we're just like every other animal on this planet.
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 10, 2009 16:56:26 GMT -5
THANK YOU Mt!
Grandender: Time is infinite. An infinite amount of time ago, lets say there was 1 particle of antimatter for 1 particle of matter.
Everything interatcs.
An infinite time later, everything has been destroyed.
Matter should be gone, but wait! It's still here!
Antimatter cannot exist for an ifninite time.
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Post by GrandEnder on Feb 10, 2009 17:08:04 GMT -5
The laws of reality did not apply during the few seconds where the primordeal atom exists, and inflation occured before the antimatter could react. Also, blackholes constantly spout out new anti-matter.
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