|
Post by darkraine on Aug 27, 2009 11:24:43 GMT -5
Well obviously, even if they are real, they're not impacting society in any way other than causing paranoia and over-hype, so I'd have to say I'm agnostic, but more importantly, don't care [:
|
|
|
Post by Sandmaster on Aug 27, 2009 13:06:45 GMT -5
Also, Sandmaster, I'd like to answer your question with a no. What I said does not ONLY apply to ghosts, it applies to many other things, many other things that have already been established as REAL, unlike the spaghetti monster. Really? Cause I do recall the fact that ghosts have NOT been established as real. If my given statements are proof for your ghosts, then they should also be proof for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so long as all of them are correct, which they are.
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Master on Aug 27, 2009 13:14:57 GMT -5
Come on, everybody knows the flying spaghetti monster exists!
|
|
|
Post by SilentWaves on Aug 27, 2009 16:39:24 GMT -5
Ya! Flying spaggehti monster: made in 1972 by a British mom who was a horrible cook. Many sightings and one capture that turned out to be spaggehti taped to a baloon.
|
|
|
Post by -M4- on Aug 29, 2009 12:47:51 GMT -5
Also, Sandmaster, I'd like to answer your question with a no. What I said does not ONLY apply to ghosts, it applies to many other things, many other things that have already been established as REAL, unlike the spaghetti monster. Really? Cause I do recall the fact that ghosts have NOT been established as real. If my given statements are proof for your ghosts, then they should also be proof for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so long as all of them are correct, which they are. You're right. Ghosts haven't been established as real, but the evidence of them is real. Your given statements are not proof for ghosts, in fact, your given statements and mine were not the same. My given statements were not proof either, but they were very strong evidence supporting ghosts existence. Can you tell me exactly what the flying spaghetti monster is supposed to be?
|
|
|
Post by darkraine on Aug 29, 2009 12:49:58 GMT -5
The flying spaghetti monster is an ethereal presence that haunts the houses of any child who does not wash their hands before or after eating spaghetti.
|
|
|
Post by -M4- on Aug 29, 2009 12:52:49 GMT -5
And he can physically affect objects and people?
|
|
|
Post by darkraine on Aug 29, 2009 23:36:19 GMT -5
Only on tuesdays. Otherwise he's a psychological thing.
|
|
|
Post by -M4- on Aug 30, 2009 0:45:39 GMT -5
If my given statements are proof for your ghosts, then they should also be proof for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, so long as all of them are correct, which they are. Seeing as you are joking, I have come to the conclusion that this is false.
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Master on Aug 30, 2009 3:34:38 GMT -5
Seeing as that is a joke, I have come to the conclusion that it is false.
|
|
|
Post by -M4- on Aug 30, 2009 10:46:13 GMT -5
How was that false?
My given statements:
Explain why ghosts have been witnessed by so many. Explain how ghosts have been videotaped. Explain how ghosts have been tape recorded. Explain why ghosts are normally sighted in places with deep histories. Explain how ghosts can physically affect objects and people if they're not real. Explain how ghosts lead people to do drastic things like sell their house if they're not even real.
Sandmasters statements:
Explain why the Flying Spaghetti Monster is believed by so many. Explain how people see Him on pieces of toast. Explain how people have been touched by his noodly appendage. Explain why He was seen in places with deep histories. (He was seen in a synagogue in Jerusalem or something somewhere) Explain how the Flying Spaghetti Monster can physically affect objects and people if He is not real. Explain how He leads people to do drastic things like sell their house if He's not real.
They are different...
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Master on Aug 30, 2009 11:01:59 GMT -5
Explain why ghost have been seen by so many? There was a study showing that after Independance Day was released many more people reported sightings of spaceships. It's the same with ghosts. People see what they want to see. Or they say something they can't explain is caused by ghosts, because they know the idea of ghosts exist, and they don't put it down to the Flying spagghetti monster because very few people have heard of it.
About them being taped or recorded, maybe it's just some specs of light that they think is ghosts, as I said, people use their imagination to explain things. About the Discovery channel and 'sightings in history', I have one thing to say to you. PHOTOSHOP.
And it's not ghosts that affects objects. Maybe it's cat that nobody sees. And people sell their house because they then again think strange banging (plumbing) and howls (plumbing) are caused by ghosts.
Now stop being silly, M4.
|
|
|
Post by -M4- on Aug 30, 2009 12:00:19 GMT -5
Do you really think all ghost videos are just specs of light on tape? And what do you think about the sound recordings? And would the discovery channel really shop their evidence? They're way more reliable than that TDM. And what would you think if they didn't shop their photos? I'd have to somewhat agree with you on the plumbing noises.. Have you ever watched ghost hunters? Did you know that one of them(or two, I forget) used to be a plumber? Sure, sometimes it is the shaky pipe in the basement, but not always.
"People see what they want to see" Not everyone wants to see a ghost, even the people who supposedly have seen one.
"they say something they can't explain is caused by ghosts" Let's say we have one of these unexplainable incidents, but strange things happen sometimes, so we pass them off. Now let's say we have another one of these unexplainable incidents, but it keeps on reoccurring... what now? And what if it can't be explained by a problem with your houses plumbing, or a pipe behind the wall, or a broken thermostat. Normally in hauntings there's more than just one type of unexplainable incident.(noise, sightings, physical effects to objects or people, etc) What do you say then? That your plumbing is bad, you have a cat that nobody has ever seen that knocks down the cups, and that your house just tends to make people feel a bit scared so they think they see things all the time? Well that's a good explanation.
Now I'm not sure if there's a nice site I can go to with good, original, non-edited videos of ghosts, but I may have to go look myself if this keeps on going.
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Master on Aug 30, 2009 15:12:54 GMT -5
Look, on TV, they're aim is to make money. They would intice viewers by either hyping up plumbing noises and damp walls, or add effects.
Well...maybe it's just people with the thought of ghosts in their sub-concious, so they immediately make a connection.
A repeated incedenct? Please give me an example. And also, supersticious people never beleive in coindence, so that's why they blame something not normal with a normal explaination as paranormal.
Well, maybe not the cat, but you get what I'm saying. Houses can have a scary feeling in the middle of the night, so they again make a connection.
M4, answer me this. How would ghosts exist? The human body is made of living tissue, with nerves and the brain making thoughts and using emotions. What some people think is a 'spirit' is just our mind.
|
|
|
Post by -M4- on Aug 30, 2009 18:18:05 GMT -5
Look, on TV, they're aim is to make money. They would intice viewers by either hyping up plumbing noises and damp walls, or add effects. Well...maybe it's just people with the thought of ghosts in their sub-concious, so they immediately make a connection. A repeated incedenct? Please give me an example. And also, supersticious people never beleive in coindence, so that's why they blame something not normal with a normal explaination as paranormal. Well, maybe not the cat, but you get what I'm saying. Houses can have a scary feeling in the middle of the night, so they again make a connection. On TV their aim is to make money, yes, but the discovery channel wouldn't lie to do that, they'd put a bunch of drama into it, but not flat out lie about it. About the repeated incident thing: Just look at haunted houses. They don't call them haunted because one man goes in and one unexplainable incident happens to him and all of a sudden its haunted, because you can normally think of a logical explanation for it all, but when it's repeated, it makes less sense, it's less logical. Also, I'm superstitious and I believe in coincidence! Why would we all not believe in coincidence? Also, houses do have a scary feeling in the middle of the night sometimes, that would make sense, but that doesn't take away from the evidence. M4, answer me this. How would ghosts exist? The human body is made of living tissue, with nerves and the brain making thoughts and using emotions. What some people think is a 'spirit' is just our mind. How would ghosts exist? Maybe we don't know because all of the scientists don't care because they think everything can be explained by their science. Well, maybe ghosts can be explained by science too, but how many scientists do you think even believe in them? You have paranormal investigators and people like that, with their EMF wave receivers and their motion detectors and all, but that just supports that ghosts are there, it doesn't really explain how. So if one person sees a ghost, it's a hallucination? And if a group, mass hallucination? And if a video tape, explain that.
|
|
|
Post by The Dark Master on Aug 31, 2009 10:38:45 GMT -5
To make money, they wouldn't want to be seen to lie, but they would hype up one single sightinging or creepy house, add a lot of creepy music, paranoid presenters ect. And people fall for it. I saw one of it's programmes at one of my friend's house once on ghosts. Total crapness.
What would you describe as a 'repeated incedent'? Plumbing that malfunctions during random points of the day...
If you really did believe in coincedence, then you wouldn't believe in ghosts at all. A person who did believe in coincedence would put a logical explanation for a 'ghostly presence'.
It's not really a 'mass hallucination'. People are very alike. They see things they cannot explain, and put the reason down to ghosts. Then they would put their views on the internet, TV ect, so many people seem to believe in them.
You do realise you're acting very like Spiritbot when he was debating against me...
|
|
|
Post by droctagonapus on Dec 11, 2009 19:12:07 GMT -5
wait... ok, so... you say there are tapes, where are the links?
I do not believe in ghosts, ghosts would mean that there are entitys that are not physicle objects, probably including a deity, which why would they keep ghosts in the same place as the living? Wouldnt that be too much like they were still alive? Also, wouldn't there be many many ghosts if they existed? Elseif what would be the requirements for one to be a ghost? Why wouldnt they show themselfs more often? What would be they're motive to remain secretive? Wouldnt at least some decide to openly show themself? Would they be unable to show up at a convention? If you were trying to prove to the world that you existed, what would you do? I'm pretty sure you would show people, and if a few did not work, would show up on a stage where a crowd was watching. Hundreds of whitnesses, probably some videotaping(even if you didnt show up on camera (a stretch if people could see you, for reasons I will explain) things affected by you probably would) Also, why the color white? It seems to me more likely that they would bend light slightly like steam or heated air above the road or cars, rather than reflect white light
This is not to say that I do not believe there is more than physical things, but I cant think of any argument for why.
I am aware that there are flaws in my argument, but I do not think it is so much that it is completely invalid.(guessing at motives of an omnipotent diety)
|
|