Do Black holes really have infinite mass

[izacque]

no. an object of infinite mas has infinite inertia and a constant, unchanging velocity. An object of infinite mass has always had infinite mass. An object of infinite mass has infinite gravity. The strength of gravity is equal to the inverse of the square of the gravitational force times the distance between two bodies. So, what's 1/(infinity²*1.0x10^999999999lightyears)?

infinity.

That means there is no escaping the gravity of a black hole. however far you are away from it, you will feel an infinite gravitational attraction to it.

[ROBiT]

Ow.

[artik]

I'm not sure if I'm feeling an "infinite gravititational attraction" right now..

[izacque]

Which is why Black holes don't have infinite mass.

[Sandmaster]

Err...infinite mass no...infinite density, possibly. Maybe a planck-unit sized density. Who knows?
But no. Definitely not infinite.

[General Veers]

This seems similar to a thread I made a while ago...well, I guess this can pass...

[izacque]

infinite density = infinite mass

[GGoodie]

Not necessarily

[General Veers]

Technically, you can't truly state that an infinite amount of one thing is equivalent to an infinite amount of another thing, since "infinity" is only a concept and not an actual amount. However, with limits, you can make pseudo-calculations with infinity.

Before diving in, I will state a few rules of limits with infinity and zero:

• The limit of the quotient as the denominator approaches infinity is zero.
  
• The limit of a quotient whose numerator approaches infinity and whose denominator is not zero will not exist.
  
• The limit of a quotient as the denominator approaches zero when the numerator does not approach zero or infinity is undefined.

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lim_{(m -> ∞)} m/V

...is essentially the density of a mass with infinite mass.

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lim_{(m -> 0)} m/V

...is the same as 0/V, which is the same as 0, which is the density of a mass with no volume.

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lim_{(V -> ∞)} m/V

...is essentially the density of a mass with infinite volume. This density is the same as that of a massless entity, as described in the previous limit.

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lim_{(V -> 0)} m/V

...is essentially the density of a mass with no volume. This density is essentially the same as that of infinite mass, which is undefined.

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You can have "infinite" density by either having finite mass and infinitesimally small volume or infinitely large mass and finite volume, using limits. Without limits, what you stated technically makes no sense...

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Dec 7, 2009 0:21:39 GMT -5 izacque said:

So, what's 1/(infinity²*1.0x10^999999999lightyears)?

infinity.

Since you are not using limits, no one is capable of carrying out the calculation since the concept of infinity is only such, not a value. If you learned how to use limits in precalculus, you would know that the limit of (x²*10^999999999)^-1 as x approaches infinity would actually be 0, not infinity.

[Qwerty]

In other words, don't mess with Veers or he uses Calculus Ray on you.

Clearly they cannot have infinite mass. However, if they have infinite density, that would theoretically be possible with an infinitely small point. Much like an infinitely large object seen from infinitely far away, but change some words.

[General Veers]

Actually, that's precalculus, not calculus.

In short, I agree that infinite mass is unattainable, but in theory infinite density is still possible, provided that one takes the density of an area that approximates a mathematical point, which has no volume. Technically, even then infinite density is impossible.

Nothing can physically have infinite density in our perception of the universe.

[izacque]

which is why black hole don't have infinite mass

[Qwerty]

...Which is why this thread is concluded. Problem solved: It can't happen.

Now, the question is, what IS at the center of the black hole?

[GGoodie]

According to the star trek movie i saw a couple days ago if you aren't ripped up you are sent backward in time. Of course, this is a movie and doesn't really have any reason to be in this post except to make it appear that im contributing.

[Qwerty]

This is Star Trek we are talking about. They think going around the sun sends you back in time.

[Sand master Not Logged]

That's not calc.

I don't believe it has infinite density, but quantum physicists and relativists say so and they have PHDs.

[Qwerty]

Fine, precalc, whatever. I'm talking about math in general.

Anyhow, they do, but other quantum physicists and relativists they there are not, and they also have PHDs.

[izacque]

Sand master

Infinite mass / finite volume = infinite density = infinite gravity = all of us. dead. now.

No need for PhD

[ONYX]

Infinite isn't even an amount. Its been debated for years and is loses every time. Infinity cannot be obtained. Infinity can be used if an amount is too high to comprehend. But numbers have no limits. You can always fit more dense material in a small amount of mass. They say all the matter in the universe came from the big bang. Which happened in 10 to the 42nd power seconds. 0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds.
And it happened within an extremely small mass. Some may say the mass.... Gah I confused myself. I forget what that small timescale is called. The Plurak. Idk
It starts with P.

Anyway. Back on topic. The reason I brought this up we may have thought that density was infinite. But in fact is was just some realy high amount.
Anyone know if theres a amount of density that can be fit into a unit of mass. Dought it exists but wth.

[Qwerty]

For-Ti-Too!

Apparently, a black hole is the density that can be fit into a mass. But we couldn't even send a probe to one, let alone enter it, so no chance of finding out what anytime soon.