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Post by GGoodie on Apr 12, 2010 20:58:48 GMT -5
Ggoodie, I realize that it was an obvious fallacy, however, it is one that people would most likely ignore if I had not posted it. And I highly suggest you don't call me a noob. I was complimenting deoxxy for his great thinking skills
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Apr 12, 2010 21:41:42 GMT -5
...oh.
I am such an idiot.
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Post by GGoodie on Apr 12, 2010 22:06:13 GMT -5
yea but we still love you qwenty
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Post by Pir8ozzy on Apr 13, 2010 4:52:35 GMT -5
It was on the same account, though. My point was that the forums have not been around for 3 years, but two and a half, as has been stated. Pr, is it so hard to believe that people actually post things on chat sometimes? You cannot register before the admin account, and PR here registered at Oct 29, 2007, 10:07am. Does he so much as remember the deletion event? It happened far after that, I'm sure he does. Anyway, yeah, two and a half years, approximately. Not three years. You see, there is little (not no) evidence. However, the other side has about the same amount of evidence. As such, neither side is lying, and you can stop telling me to stop lying, because I'm not. He's proven it to me. I understand that you don't believe it, and I probably wouldn't, either, if I didn't have the proof. Please keep in mind, the "proof" I said was mentioned publicly was only briefly mentioned and was also on chat. He probably didn't want to leave an easy-to-find record, considering he's not exactly allowed to tell people updates before they happen, or to release source code. See, I know that I am right, but I have no way of proving it here. Unless you people know where to get a polygraph machine and how to hook it up over the internet, this discussion is going nowhere, and as such the status quo can be maintained. So what you are saying, is that at some point in time TheListo posted a piece of the source code onto chat, which was then subsequently added at the nearest update. That may be true, and that may be a lie, but since it is impossible to replicate (you claim it would break the rules to post code on the forum), it cannot be taken into account by anyone but yourself. This means that TheListo's evidence still stands at 0. Whereas our side most certainly does have evidence: (this is the whole reason I switched in the first place) Our evidence is that Ha55ii has never mentioned TheListo, the person who is ‘supposed’ to be his co-developer, and who would be a very important person if he contributed to the games in such a large amount. TheListo’s continued inability to get his name mentioned in any way provides us with strong evidence that he did not work with Ha55ii. A web-game developer such a Ha55ii would never deprive their co-developers of credit if some credit was requested. This means that TheListo is by default not the coder. (in the same way that every other member is by default not the coder.) Currently, if I pretended that I was the coder my argument would be equally as strong as TheListo’s. (in terms of evidence) I could just get another member to claim that I showed them some source code on chat.
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Post by V.I.R.O.S. on Apr 13, 2010 5:50:22 GMT -5
Hi everybody!
Guess what? None of your arguments have any point. None of them. It doesn't matter if TheListo is the programmer or not, because he made the forum, and he can damn well call it whatever he wants. If ha55ii sues him over it, he can do that to. It doesn't matter. I personally believe he is the programmer, simply because I trust Qwerty's judgment in this matter.
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Post by Pir8ozzy on Apr 13, 2010 6:28:05 GMT -5
Hi everybody! Guess what? None of your arguments have any point. None of them. It doesn't matter if TheListo is the programmer or not, because he made the forum, and he can damn well call it whatever he wants. If ha55ii sues him over it, he can do that to. It doesn't matter. I personally believe he is the programmer, simply because I trust Qwerty's judgment in this matter. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. TheListo didn't make the forum, he was granted ownership by someone else. The original owner certainly wouldn't have lied in the way TheListo did. If Qwerty's around, see my post above V.I.R.O.S.'s.
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Post by disabled on Apr 13, 2010 6:32:46 GMT -5
There is no prove listo is not the coder, there is only evidence. But there is no prove he is either and to me there is also no evidence he is. VIROS you are right, it doesn't matter if he is, or this forum is or not, but calling yourself something you are not isn't very nice. And if people question this forum, its not good for the forum. Its better this forum is proven to be non-official and everybody stops claiming it is is better then claiming it is and many people no believing into it. (I hope that made sense.) Of course it would be even better if this forum would be proven official.
Qwerty, if you remember what he showed you exactly when, I might still confirm the legality of the prove. Its sufficient if you say he showed me X before update Y. If you don't want to post it openly (because You believe Listo might get into trouble) please send me a PM. If Listo showed any interest in proving himself, I could ask some questions he would be able to answer if he is the coder but would have a hard time if he wasn't.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Apr 13, 2010 8:34:18 GMT -5
Exactly, there is no evidence either way. Anyway, I think the exact update was bomb, or something around there.
There is other evidence, Pr8, but you are choosing to ignore it. Anyway, I would take your side if he hadn't presented proof to me. I don't expect you to believe that, but I do expect you not to get me to believe you, because I won't, because you've been proven wrong. The fact that nobody else can see that proof doesn't mean I'm going to change it, and calling me a liar really isn't helping.
Anyway, unless you can contact Ha55ii and get him to tell you directly that he isn't the programmer, then by default, we are official. A high administrator has been shown proof, which is enough for me. The fact that you weren't here when it was posted in no way invalidates it.
Long story short: The people that actually have access to the name of the forum know for sure that he is the programmer, and whether you believe so or not, the name stays.
Now, if you REALLY want answers, try finding someone that can translate Japanese for Project DB-PAL. That's the only way we can get any form of proof, or, rather, you.
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Post by Pir8ozzy on Apr 13, 2010 11:36:26 GMT -5
There is other evidence, Pr8, but you are choosing to ignore it. What other evidence did you mention? I'm not choosing to ignore it, I just didn't think you mentioned anything else. I thought the chat-thing was the only one. If you have another piece of evidence, I would gladly hear it. I do have a question about the thing TheListo showed you on chat. Was it a prediction of an update, or was it a piece of future source code? Because source code would be excellent, unbeatable evidence. However a vague update prediction is not. (I suppose an exact prediction might work, but it would really have to be perfect for it not to seem like a lucky guess) On a side note, what exactly is Project DB-PAL plan? Anyway, about asking Ha55ii directly, I have a couple of friends who are near-fluent in Japanese, so the language barrier is not a problem. However I do not know the best way to go about contacting him. You claim that someone had access to Ha5ii at some point, so how was Ha55ii contacted in this first instance? Will I be able to use the same method?
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Post by disabled on Apr 13, 2010 13:04:00 GMT -5
Code and precise updates may not prove anything. I don't know about PG, but there was enough stuff in the SR updates that could be shown to an uneducated (in that sense) person to convince them you know more then the rest. If you remember exactly what update was predicted or source code was shown, I might still verify that.
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Post by V.I.R.O.S. on Apr 13, 2010 15:17:10 GMT -5
I am aware that Frog made the forums. But Listo "made" them. Frog only had the forums for a tiny amount of time. Besides. It still doesn't matter. We could call them the Official CIA Forums, and nobody could do a thing about it. It. Doesn't. Matter.
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Post by GGoodie on Apr 13, 2010 15:28:29 GMT -5
If you dont care then gtfo. If you dont want to discuss a matter than dont discuss it.
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Post by QwertyuiopThePie on Apr 13, 2010 20:23:19 GMT -5
DB-PAL is a plan to contact Ha55ii personally. You can PM Vertigo about it, he's leading the project, and he needs Japanese speakers.
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Post by Pir8ozzy on Apr 14, 2010 3:21:24 GMT -5
We quite obviously disagree with your judgement of what does and does not matter. As far as I'm concerned, when both the integrity of the site owner, AND the name of the forum are under scrutiny, thats about as important as an investigation can get. DB-PAL is a plan to contact Ha55ii personally. You can PM Vertigo about it, he's leading the project, and he needs Japanese speakers. Well if Vertigo suceeds, that would end all disputes, as you or I will be able to put forward a direct question, and recieve a definitive answer. This is probably our best chance to prove the situation either way. I do not know how soon Vertigo excepts to make contact. I think we should do all that we can to speed the project along.
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Post by V.I.R.O.S. on Apr 14, 2010 5:57:23 GMT -5
Does anyone realize that if we just ignore this problem it goes away? If you stop caring about if it's official or not, it's no longer an issue. I personally believe Listo is the owner, but until DB-Pal goes through, this argument goes nowhere. No one is going to change their mind until we get ahold of ha55ii, so this argument is just going cause people to get progressively more and more angry over nothing. ._.
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Post by Frogmaster on Apr 14, 2010 18:45:10 GMT -5
Hey, if it helps for me to clear up this little bit, I was the Frogmaster who originally created the forums. I handed them over to Listo when I got suddenly too busy to take care of it in real life, which was a few months (or less) after the date of creation. The name was originally 'The Official Dan-Ball Forums' when I started it because official made it sound, well, official, but I wasn't really going off of any real affiliation. It was more of a member garnering technique, to be honest (it worked!). So that should cover your origins of the site name issue. There will have been no previous posts concerning it since I was the only person involved in the naming of the site.
And yeah, while I started the site, Listo is now the owner. He's made the site what it is today, which is to say, very nice.
I'm afraid Froggy is a tad mistaken. If it started out as official, then why was a thread made some time later stating that the forums had become official? Why do some people still have "unofficial" in their bookmarks? Just putting this here to be vissible to all.
-Qwerty
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Post by GGoodie on Apr 14, 2010 19:12:13 GMT -5
TBH i think GV, Qwerty, and TSL did most of the work..
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Post by General Veers on Apr 14, 2010 20:23:26 GMT -5
*Takes off helmet, bangs head on desk several times.
Puts helmet back on.*
Alright, so the word "Official" is merely for gathering members and not representative of any formal approval from Ha55ii himself? Very well, we can always fix that easily enough, although I wonder if our "Dan-Ball affiliate" banner on the bottom means it already has? Either there is something somewhere indicating how we got permission for affiliation, or that was just for the sake of getting members. I could easily lead one to the post for Studio Zero affiliation, but I can't do so for Dan-Ball itself. Then again, I couldn't lead you to any proof of our affiliation with Rosasecta, either, yet I'm sure our affiliation with it is indeed formal.
Have any formal agreements been typed and saved somewhere concerning the Dan-Ball affiliation, or did we make that ourselves under the assumption that we already had such affiliation?
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Post by Frogmaster on Apr 14, 2010 20:32:34 GMT -5
Nope, I pretty much made that up on the spot when I named the forum and nobody really complained so it stuck. Keep in mind that it wasn't a democracy when this decision was made; all responsibility for the name was on me at that point.
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Post by General Veers on Apr 14, 2010 20:35:35 GMT -5
Weren't we originally the UDBF and then changed to the ODBF, or was the name change during your time? In remote parts of the Story Sub-board, there are references to our being the UDBF. There has also been a thread celebrating the transition from U to O, which I do believe TheListo created. I will have to search the Public Archives and the Trash for it.
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