Commerce in the Shops

[microfarad]

Okay, here we go... A little economic theory!!!

Dan-Balls are created at a rather significant rate. Members join at a negligible rate. This means that the capital per member is increasing QUICKLY. What does this mean for a normal economic system??? Inflation. Inflation isn't always bad, if everyone has the same piece of the pie, it doesn't matter if the pie grows or shrinks. The problem is that the pie is flowing towards just a few people, thus we have QwertyuiopThePie. Qwerty is a great example because his name is QwertyuiopThePie and he has a staggering sum of capital. This is because the Dan-Ball forums have an unusual economic system. A very few people control a large majority of the business sector. Name color changes, Custom Boards, Custom Badges etc. are all controlled by a bourgeoisie elite, but there is no proletariat. Prices are kept low for the bourgeoisie class, yet high for the lower class. If prices were higher the lower class members would be unable to purchase anything, if they were lower, the shop owner would gain little in relation to his fellow bourgeoisies. Thus, there is a massive accumulation of capital in the bourgeoisie class which is sucked from the lower class. If a lower class member develops an industry then they can only become at all comparable to the bourgeoisie class by selling to the bourgeoisie class, selling to the lower class does not draw an appreciable income. There is thus little trade among the lower class, because the lower class is focused on buying the illustrious products of the upper class, a pastime which requires much saving up. This is a stagnant system, where little is being made. This violates the fundamental purpose of this forum, which is to be active. This is why we need a proletariat class. The proletariat class would work for the bourgeoisie class. The bourgeoisie class would pay the proletariat for its work. Prices would fall, relative to the proletariat's income. This is unachievable under the current system because there is not a mass of lower class people becoming proletariats. Instead, a lower class individual quickly rises through the ranks until they are a bourgeoisie. There is no interaction with the other proletariats at that time, because their income is not sufficient to buy the goods of the rising star in most cases. If we introduce my suggestion, and create a massive proletariate, the problem will not once again worsen, because there is no incentive for the bourgeoisies to raise prices, since that would discourage the product's purchase among the still impoverished proletariat. Yet, the products would not leach the proletariat of it's strength, and commerce would begin among the proletariat. This would induce a mass consumer culture, which would attempt to supplement it's income by posting. This would achieve the goal of this forum, by inducing activity in two sectors, the shops, and the rest of the forum. What we need to do is identify the lower class, then in some way make the bourgeoisies use the lower class as a workforce, creating a proletariat. What kind of jobs could the lower class perform for the upper class?

In short, the whole problem is due to monopolies (not molopoys). If the people holding monopolies provide tasks for the people without, then the system would be more stable. As soon as the workforce system is abolished then the system will once again collapse. Again I ask you, what jobs can the lower class do?

[disabled]

DBs is a currency based on nothing. Its value is purely virtual. Everyone who sells stuff for DBs gets nothing for it, unless you make it valuable in buying subforums or use it as an epenis meter. Did the prices for forums and similar rise in the past? If not I see no problem in inflation. The ones with a high DB count can be proud of themself, everyone else still has the same chance at gaining DB-based privileges, only their epenis will fall short to the others. If the prices have risen, then inflation is bad for the low DB guys, as they won't be able to buy forums and stuff.
Either way, there is nothing wordshaking important you can do with DBs.

[microfarad]

I agree with most of what you have to say... But there is something to be said for my plan. It increases activity. That is the good thing about it.

[Qwerty]

I lost you when you mentioned me. Anyway, staff members get stuff free anyway. The prices aren't lowered for the nobles, they are the same for everyone. It's just the quantity. Anyway, this is a forum, not a civilization. Not everyone has to have a job; dan-balls aren't needed for survival.

Anyway, people can already make shops.

Anyway, the people with shops are mostly the non-staff members...

Is there any chance you can post a version I can read, please? Maybe splitting it into key ideas or something? Plus removing the extended metaphors? Cause I lost you pretty quickly in that one, and no amount of re-reading will remove the blank spots.

[microfarad]

LOL, read about the bourgeoisies and proletariats during the western textile movement... THEN come back and read this. It's philosophy / economic theory, nobody gets it the first time. Just be glad I didn't adopt the customary pedantic tone full of enormous words...

[Qwerty]

That's not what I meant. I mean I like to read stuff with defined areas where I can rest and figure out where I am. If it's like that, without format, I find myself unable to read it no matter what it is. I already know about the Bourgies and the Proles in the textile movement, I just didn't see any connection with this. I know economic theory and such, but I wouldn't get this if it was about arithmetic.

[microfarad]

Qwerty, grow a Superior temporal gyrus then come back and read this...

[FoxtrotZero]

tl;dl
Text wall is TEXTWALL.

Besides that;

Mar 23, 2010 18:40:39 GMT -5 Qwerty said:

I lost you when you mentioned me. Anyway, staff members get stuff free anyway.

Incorrect sir. We abolished this system long ago, with the only exception being forum shops (name colors, custom boards, etc.) which do not have an owner and the funds are abolished. A monetary sink, if you will.

If you've been mistaken, then you're doing it wrong.

Besides that, MF, you've provided a why, but you lack a how. What are you hoping to achieve? Furthermore, you are incorrect.

This forum is entirely capitalistic. No DB exists that was not earned, as the fabrication of Danballs is prohibited. As such, your point is invalid.

[General Veers]

If the fabrication of Dan-Balls is prohibited, then how was it permissible for me to provide you Dan-Balls for your custom board?

[FoxtrotZero]

Well, thats true.

I seem to have caught myself in a trap.

Okay then, allow me to clarify. The unauthorized fabrication of Dan-Balls is prohibited.
Furthermore, as previously stated, that money was destroyed as quickly as it was created.

[microfarad]

Fox said...

Besides that, MF, you've provided a why, but you lack a how. What are you hoping to achieve? Furthermore, you are incorrect.

This forum is entirely capitalistic. No DB exists that was not earned, as the fabrication of Danballs is prohibited. As such, your point is invalid.

A. This thread was created to discuss "hows"

B. How does this disprove me??? It even makes my argument clearer. Did you read my "Textwall"

[Qwerty]

You spent it on something. It wasn't destroyed, it was turned into something that is an advantage to you. Does that mean we should take your board away?

MF, I already have one, and suggesting I don't isn't helping your argument one bit. Really, when in a debate does "Grow a brain, then come back and argue" help?

[microfarad]

A small portion of a brain. Anyways, everybody else seems to process my argument just fine. I thought maybe you just needed to read this a few more times. But... Here is the revised version...

Dan-Balls are created at a rather significant rate. Members join at a negligible rate. This means that the capital per member is increasing QUICKLY. What does this mean for a normal economic system??? Inflation. Inflation isn't always bad, if everyone has the same piece of the pie, it doesn't matter if the pie grows or shrinks. The problem is that the capital is flowing towards just a few people, thus we have a rich minority and a poor majority. This is because the Dan-Ball forums have an unusual economic system. A very few people control a large majority of the business sector. Name color changes, Custom Boards, Custom Badges etc. are all controlled by a bourgeoisie elite, but there is no proletariat. Prices are relatively low for the bourgeoisie class, yet high for the lower class. If prices were higher the lower class members would be unable to purchase anything, if they were lower, the shop owner would gain little in relation to his fellow bourgeoisies. Thus, there is a massive accumulation of capital in the bourgeoisie class which is sucked from the lower class. If a lower class member develops an industry then they can only become at all comparable to the bourgeoisie class by selling to the bourgeoisie class, selling to the lower class does not draw an appreciable income. There is thus little trade among the lower class, because the lower class is focused on buying the illustrious products of the upper class, a pastime which requires much saving up. This is a stagnant system, where little is being made. This violates the fundamental purpose of this forum, which is to be active. This is why we need a proletariat class. The proletariat class would work for the bourgeoisie class. The bourgeoisie class would pay the proletariat for its work. Prices would fall, relative to the proletariat's income. This is unachievable under the current system because there is not a mass of lower class people becoming proletarians. Instead, a lower class individual quickly rises through the ranks until they are a bourgeoisie. There is no interaction with the other proletarians at that time, because their income is not sufficient to buy the goods of the rising star in most cases. If we introduce my suggestion, and create a massive proletarians, the problem will not once again worsen, because there is no incentive for the bourgeoisies to raise prices, since that would discourage the product's purchase among the still impoverished proletariat. Yet, the products would not leach the proletariat of it's strength, and commerce would begin among the proletariat. This would induce a mass consumer culture, which would attempt to supplement it's income by posting. This would achieve the goal of this forum, by inducing activity in two sectors, the shops, and the rest of the forum. What we need to do is identify the lower class, then in some way make the bourgeoisies use the lower class as a workforce, creating a proletariat. What kind of jobs could the lower class perform for the upper class?

In short, the whole problem is due to monopolies. If the people holding monopolies provide tasks for the people without, then the system would be more stable. As soon as the workforce system is abolished then the system will once again collapse. Again I ask you, what jobs can the lower class do?

[vaconcovat]

tl;dr

This forum is not an economy. It is a forum. Everyone has a "job" in which they earn DBs. (Posting) I honestly think there is no need for any of this, as the shop is never really active. I would consider this idea once we have 100's of ACTIVE members. Right now were have <100 ACTIVE members. I honestly think you shouldn't worry.

[V.I.R.O.S.]

Micro, we really don't need to be psychoanalyzed. The current system is working just fine.

[Qwerty]

Same as VIROS. The forum has no "economy"; the value of the dan-ball stays the same. Actual economic factors don't have much of a play here. Anyway, the proles already have jobs, but we don't have a large enough prole class. And if everyone is Bourgie, then isn't everyone a prole? Anyway, the real high class dan-ball wise (the staff) generally buy from the low class, that own shops. The staff have no need for shops, as they have no need for dan-balls.

Fox, you are completely incorrect. While staff don't get certain things free and they can't randomly produce a bunch of dan-balls, they do get most things free (From the shops, from the user-owned shops, etc).

[FoxtrotZero]

Mar 25, 2010 1:22:27 GMT -5 @vaconcovat said:

tl;dr

This forum is not an economy. It is a forum. Everyone has a "job" in which they earn DBs. (Posting) I honestly think there is no need for any of this, as the shop is never really active. I would consider this idea once we have 100's of ACTIVE members. Right now were have <100 ACTIVE members. I honestly think you shouldn't worry.

I agree with this statement. And furthermore, the fact that you keep posting that textwall is preventing anyone from properly understanding you, a concept you seemingly fail to grasp.

Mar 25, 2010 8:43:41 GMT -5 Qwerty said:

Fox, you are completely incorrect. While staff don't get certain things free and they can't randomly produce a bunch of dan-balls, they do get most things free (From the shops, from the user-owned shops, etc).

I was under the impression we had abolished this system long ago. While I know sometimes they are given things, if they're still getting whatever from wherever with no cost at all, something is not right.

[Qwerty]

They aren't, Fox. But there's not really anything to "get" outside the shop, and the things that cost inside the shop are big things, like blinking names (which, I just noticed, mine currently isn't) and custom boards.

[microfarad]

GAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH This is ridiculous, I give up. You guys won't read what I have to say... I rescind my suggestion.

[General Veers]

Mar 25, 2010 0:28:02 GMT -5 microfarad said:

The problem is that the capital is flowing towards just a few people, thus we have a rich minority and a poor majority. This is because the Dan-Ball forums have an unusual economic system. A very few people control a large majority of the business sector. Name color changes, Custom Boards, Custom Badges etc. are all controlled by a bourgeoisie elite, but there is no proletariat.

This bourgeoisie exists because it is the only class that has access to the means of providing these services, i.e. by editing the headers/footers (H/F).

Mar 25, 2010 0:28:02 GMT -5 microfarad said:

This is why we need a proletariat class. The proletariat class would work for the bourgeoisie class. The bourgeoisie class would pay the proletariat for its work. Prices would fall, relative to the proletariat's income. This is unachievable under the current system because there is not a mass of lower class people becoming proletarians. Instead, a lower class individual quickly rises through the ranks until they are a bourgeoisie.

Not only that, but as I mentioned before, many of the services are only possible by editing the H/F. Only four people are capable of this: TheListo, QwertyuiopThePie, TheShadowLord, and myself. Gaining access to the H/F would require one to become an Administrator or the Site Owner himself, i.e. a member of the bourgeoisie.

Mar 25, 2010 0:28:02 GMT -5 microfarad said:

There is no interaction with the other proletarians at that time, because their income is not sufficient to buy the goods of the rising star in most cases. If we introduce my suggestion, and create a massive proletarians, the problem will not once again worsen, because there is no incentive for the bourgeoisies to raise prices, since that would discourage the product's purchase among the still impoverished proletariat. Yet, the products would not leach the proletariat of it's strength, and commerce would begin among the proletariat. This would induce a mass consumer culture, which would attempt to supplement it's income by posting. This would achieve the goal of this forum, by inducing activity in two sectors, the shops, and the rest of the forum. What we need to do is identify the lower class, then in some way make the bourgeoisies use the lower class as a workforce, creating a proletariat. What kind of jobs could the lower class perform for the upper class?

The kinds that are not available to them unless they know the very basics of JavaScript, HTML, CSS; and become trustworthy and helpful and active. By this point, Peter's Principle will raise such proletarians into the bourgeoisie.

Mar 25, 2010 0:28:02 GMT -5 microfarad said:

In short, the whole problem is due to monopolies. If the people holding monopolies provide tasks for the people without, then the system would be more stable. As soon as the workforce system is abolished then the system will once again collapse. Again I ask you, what jobs can the lower class do?

Insert repeated argument here.

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In short, there is no way to provide a workforce for many of the tasks without first giving such workforce access to the H/F. Through there, dangerous things could spawn with the person who either has malicious intent or doesn't know what (s)he is doing. As for the other tasks, there are already shop owners taking care of them.