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Post by Soul Alchemist on Feb 11, 2009 18:06:03 GMT -5
didn't we just cover this over in "is there a god"? there's a difference between universe and space. universe is---er well...nvm...GV or SM you wanna explain it?
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Post by Qwerty333 on Feb 11, 2009 18:19:53 GMT -5
the universe cannot, or never will be infinite. it is always a size, a shape. it's just growing bigger. The thing its expanding into could be infinite. Which is why we say it's infinite. We're saying it can expand forever.
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 11, 2009 21:36:37 GMT -5
TDM, that isn't the universe. That is a matter shell formed my an explosion.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 12, 2009 16:52:51 GMT -5
Well, isn't the universe matter formed by an explosion? When we say it's infinite and can expand forever, the universe will never be infinite, it's just the process that is infinite.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 12, 2009 16:57:00 GMT -5
Also, if the universe was infinite, then everything we imagine has to exist somewhere. Also, evantually, all light from every star would eventually reach earth and night would turn into day. Just some interesting points. Also, couldn't we just end this debate by saying: The theory of of the universe is (drum roll).......................General Relativity!
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Post by GrandEnder on Feb 12, 2009 17:19:38 GMT -5
Unless the edge of the universe blocked light, and there was infinite space beyond that.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 12, 2009 17:41:44 GMT -5
Erm... no. the stars light come from inside the universe. There isn't infinite space between us and all the rest of the stars.
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 12, 2009 18:47:28 GMT -5
Well, isn't the universe matter formed by an explosion? When we say it's infinite and can expand forever, the universe will never be infinite, it's just the process that is infinite. The matter was always there. The explosion was like a supernova (just a crapload bigger)
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 13, 2009 9:20:55 GMT -5
Or..... all matter was compressed into one tiny thingymabob, then it suddenly exploded and the matter spread out.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 13, 2009 10:24:31 GMT -5
Wait..... my signature looks like a player making the big bang
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 13, 2009 20:08:30 GMT -5
Only an infinitesimal fraction of all matter was compressed.
And I made that sig for you =P
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 14, 2009 4:59:29 GMT -5
SandMaster, no matter can be created, it had to be already there. I think the tiniest thingy was there and expanded, although nothing was created during it. A infinte amount of density in an infinatly small thingy. I read The Brief History Of Time XD Thanks for creating the sig, tis cool!
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 15, 2009 22:06:20 GMT -5
Well, you're halfway there.
I explained to you several (thousand) times that the matter was already there.
But it wasn't infinite mass. It was finite, as the mater that came out of it can be measured. If the mass is finite, then the density is finite, else we suffer the Conversion Paradox.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 16, 2009 4:43:35 GMT -5
Good point. a conversion paradox is.......?
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Post by doomish on Feb 16, 2009 4:56:26 GMT -5
I'm guessing a conversion paradox is that if two conflicting things both have infinite properties, bad stuff happens and the universe collapses on itself.
Nihilism, guys. Haven't you considered that this is all your psyche? Like, take for example the keyboard you are typing on. You can feel it, see it, even taste it if you like, but is it real?
If you think so, how do you know? How do you know that you aren't making it taste that way, or feel that smooth? How do you know that the universe is infinite when you can't discern one thought from another?
Nihilism cannot be proven, because I don't know if you are conscious, or if you on't know if I'm conscious. However, if the universe is indeed infinite, the question remains about how we know it's infinite. Is it just guessing? Or is it something we (You or I or anyone) made up from the human psyche in the world they control?
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 16, 2009 5:48:46 GMT -5
So....if Nihilism was true, than the universe would be shaped as we see fit. If it were true, then the brain makes up our universe and everyone on here would be from my brain and not really real. Scary thought.......
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 16, 2009 7:56:58 GMT -5
That's how I prove nobody exists.
Conversion Paradox is something about the conversion of energy to mass, and since the object is infinitely small, it's infinitely dense, causing expansion at infinite speeds.
The kinetic energy is therefore infinite, and somehow ( forget where in my proof) is converted into NEW infinite mass that becomes a NEW infinite object that is infinitely small, causing etc. etc. etc. etc. etc....
So the mass will multiply indefinitely and infinitely.
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Post by The Dark Master on Feb 16, 2009 12:47:09 GMT -5
That explains a lot. Humans autimatically assume the universeis infinite becuase it's the only thing we have seen and we haven't seen anything apart from it.
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Post by General Veers on Feb 16, 2009 16:55:18 GMT -5
The definition of the universe is the totality of everything that exists or is conceived.
Are there an infinite number of numbers? Are there an infinite number of thought and ideas to be perceived (even though humans will never come up with all of them)? If so, then a single infinite element within a set makes the set infinite. The universe can be assumed to be infinite.
Of course, I do enjoy the idea that "I think, therefore I am." Thank you, Descartes...
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Post by Sandmaster on Feb 16, 2009 21:54:50 GMT -5
But how can you define thought? To have a collection of neurons in your head doesn't make you exist...
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